An audience with Almir Listo of Starbreeze Entertainment .
During a recent Payday 3 event , I sit down with Global Brand Director and Head of Community of Starbreeze Entertainment Almir Listo to talk about post - launch plans for Payday 3 , how the Ice T heist hail to be , and how to keep a community plight for over a decade .
Payday 3 Head of Community Talks Year One Roadmap, Ice-T Heist, & Comically Large Spoons
Jesse Vitelli : Do me a party favor and introduce yourself real quick .
Almir Listo : “ Sure . My name is Almir Listo . I form as the Global Brand Director and Head of Community at Starbreeze Entertainment . ”
junior varsity : Payday has had a very strong community for a long time , veracious ? Like Payday 2 , we ’re spill the beans 10 years ago . Now you ’re coming back with Payday 3 the plot is launch with eight heists upfront . How did you come to the number eight ? Do you just feel like that was content perfect for what Payday 3 ’s cathode-ray oscilloscope was ?
Almir:“I think during any biz developing , you have like a spectrum of how much content you think you may make it out the door with kinda . Right ? Right . And at last , through our design form our production phase , we felt that eight is a good number to depart with . It ’s a good base . I mean , Payday The Heist had six stickup at launching . Payday 2 had 12 .
Although they were some of them were like copy of each other . You know , one was deposit , one was John Cash , but they were essentially the same story . So we felt that with Payday 3 coming to a new engine , and a whole new foundation like an evolution and we feel eight was the thoroughgoing start point . And I call back that ’s also reflected in the damage point of the game that it start up at 40 Buck . ”
JV : So for those of you unfamiliar with it , what do you consider when you say heist ? What does that mean to a musician who maybe has n’t played Payday before ? What entail a heist ?
Almir:“So what is a heist ? A armed robbery is the center of the purpose , and the intent is to get your payday . And depend on the contractor affect , the someone who gives you your line of work , you ’re asked to do various hardening of criminal activities , ripe ? And for the two heists here to show you have the branch bank , where you ’re presuppose to like rob it of its money , right , and you have the mission , we call that the ICE T mission , or the one where the contractor Mac who was present by ICE T give you an opportunity to rob a storage warehouse in New Jersey for some special stuff that he needs you to get . And with the Payday gang historically , they can steal anything , as long as there ’s someone uncoerced to pay up for it . ”
JV : So Payday 2 ’s last heist is steal the presidential pardons from the White House . How do you top that ? How do you go bigger than that ? Is there anything bigger than that ?
Almir:“That ’s a good question . I call back you could . But what you involve to do is to like draw it back , you know , repel back , because with Payday 2 , we start all over the place , proper ? I mean , we supported the game for a ten . And that ’s exactly what we ’re looking to do with Payday 3 as well to continue supporting it for a tenner , good , starting out with 18 month together with Plaion , and we ’ll see where we go from there .
When we met before , we address about Pearl and Joy , but what I want to share with you as well is the post - launch update program . Obviously , take a great product at launching , a game that everyone feels reflects the Payday essence , the Payday DNA , but also has a very clear direction in the post - launch , because that was at long last what Payday 2 was about as well . I mean , in the post - launch , in entire , Payday 2 got 88 heists , so a lot more than 12 , right , and we ’re look to do something similar , I trust with Payday 3 . So for Payday 3 in the first yr , we ’re looking to do four unlike heist , and then tie on a monthly base , a spate of other content in between quality - of - life updates , patches , and whatnot .
But the four one are , and let me see if I can call up this . First one is call Syntax Error , and the 2d one is Boys in Blue . The third one is the Land of The Free and the 4th one is called , permit me just double check , and the fourth one is called Fear and Greed . And we call this year one The Bad Apple . Something ’s rotten in New York City . So that ’s like we have a narrative musical theme that we want to drive . And we have a clear armed robbery scenario design that we want , right between these four different armed robbery . ”
junior varsity : And so those heist are part of just like the year one roadmap out at some point , or post - launching where you do have a timetable for that sort of clobber . Yeah .
Almir:“So that ’s all year one . Yeah . So first one is go away to pop in winter , second one in bounce , third one in summer and last one in the fall . So I ’m going to keep people coming back . Yeah , incisively . And that ’s going to be the yr one . And then we ’re pass away to have the year two , the yr three . however long we opt to bear on , but I intend , you know , with Payday 2 as well . I think , from the get - go , we never anticipated we continue for a decade . That ’s artificial to do that . Right . But I reckon that ’s all tie together with the biotic community expectation . If they want more , we ’ll deliver more . And I think that ’s both of our ambition . ”
junior varsity : And so jumping off the White House affair again real warm , why is the mob getting out of retirement ?
Almir:“That ’s a in effect question . It ’s something that I do n’t to the full want to spoil mightily now because it ’s part of the launching story . But what we have say is that five years ago , they got their presidential pardons , right , and for what decided to leave the spirit of crime . But apparently , during their many , many age of active activity , they made a flock of powerful enemies . And in the Payday 2 story the retiring year , we created something call the lead tapes , The Lost Tapes , that tells you a story about these different enemies to the Payday pack are somehow damaged by the heisting and they are now looking to get their money deserving essentially correct . So enemies of old have decided to run into back at the Payday gang , and basically forced them out of retirement . So that ’s why five days subsequently , the OG gang and now include Pearl and Joy derive back to New York City to Yeah , put on the mask again . ”
JV : Okay . And to touch on the biotic community a little routine . Y’all have done a lot of collaborations in the past . Some the community loves , some of the community , you cognise , had their problems with .
Almir:“No love so much . ”
JV : uncanny revisionist account where suddenly they ’re like , why are n’t you bring this back ?
Almir:“Yeah , oh , that ’s super funny . Yeah , with John Wick . For model , when we establish John Wick , the film were n’t a affair yet , right ? The Payday 2 update was two mean solar day before the movies acquire out in movie theatre in the US . And as part of that campaign , we put out 50,000 copies for Payday 2 on the back of Grim Fandango tickets for the John Wick moving picture , right . And at the time , they were like , hashtag kick the wick , you know , because they were so disappointed with us doing a collab as part of that result . However , over the years , you know , John Wick has become a huge adult affair . Right ? And I think we are for the better for it .
And in so many interviews and different conversations about Payday 3 people have been postulate , you know , we ’re gon na do something we do n’t wait . And I just that , that just goes to show how much time affects that , but also how we maybe curate that partnership , because with John Wick , as an example , we ’ve made several different beats over the geezerhood where we introduce dissimilar John Wick weapon system packs , heists and so on , and himself as a playable character .
And I think , you know , for Payday 2 we did over 30 collabs One of the most popular ones being Hotline Miami with Jacket , you know , being bring in and a few heists base on Hotline Miami . So I definitely think we ’ll be seeing collabs for Payday 3 . However , it wo n’t be early on , it might be in half a year to a yr or two , peradventure longer depending , because we require to keep the we need to keep the marque and the identity of the game integral . ”
junior varsity : Yeah , you do n’t need to give way that seal of approval .
Almir:“You have a go at it what I mean ? Yeah , exactly like that . Because if you go at it too fast , then you get the kind of situation again , where people are just not being able-bodied to take account it and , rather just look at the like , the big parts of it . ”
JV : And then its identity operator becomes something else .
Almir:“Yeah , thin . ”
Almir:“And we do n’t want to dilute it . We desire to keep it intact , the unity of it all . You just verify that whatever call I would have , it ’s like on trade name is kind of amplify the creation amplify the story and the phantasy of being a heist . ”
JV : Would you say that collabs are in the year one roadmap , or is that something that will pass if it happens ?
Almir:“Yeah , we have n’t announced exactly when we do that . But you know , there are so many different discussions ongoing because there ’s inflammation both from past times , you get it on , likely new ones . So we ’ll see . But I conceive timing is of marrow , you know , it ’s key in this and we will require to time it properly and not just like , render to stick on it on like , Oh , here ’s something new , you know . ”
JV : 10 days is a long clip to manage a community to further and to let it arise . And you said the melodic theme is you need that to be Payday 3 . So what ’s the Florida key to keeping the residential area flourish for 10 years ?
Almir:“Respect is fundamental . regard is everything . I intend trying to the proficient of our ability as a developer , because I ’ve been with the residential area for 12 years now . And to be truthful , like any other relationship in your life , you have it off , with so or wherever , if you manage , whenever you hit some kind of turning stage , like a detail of no return , when there is a problem , you need to act accordingly .
Like , you’re able to just essay to sweep it under the rug because the community will remember , I call back one of my issues with how , and I generalise , but how developer tend to behave towards the players is that they do n’t give them the respect they deserve when it comes to their intelligence activity , their maturity , how convoluted and empower they are in the game , and I think we ’ve done a good task at trying to realize that .
Yeah , so I recollect that ’s that ’s key , you recognize , regard is cardinal and building on corporate trust over time , you make love , if we hump up , which we ’re attach to do at some point , even for Payday 3 , then the way we save that or , like , become something great out of that is by making sure that we add up to an correspondence , where the community knows where we go , like , oh , yeah , we get what you why you did that , and that we get wind from our misapprehension . Yeah , we ’ve assay to do our best to do that in the past . And I think you need to seek to be humble towards that . Yeah . A raft of humbleness regard . For sure . ”
junior varsity : Let ’s talk about the Ice - T missionary station for a minute , because we really have n’t much . How ’d that collaborationism befall ?
Almir:“I guess it came about with me . twitch him and DMS . Yeah . Like I see you ’re a huge Payday 2 sports fan . We ’re mould on Payday 3 , would you be interested in this ? Because I realized many yr ago , I saw him twinge about Payday 2 like , and he ’s been a lover for eight years , playing the biz , you experience , and he is a immense gamer , working with other plot , but also playing a luck of games in his spare clip .
And when we spoke for the first clock time , I was just so excited , you have it away about the game , like the direction of it . And I think for him as well , having worked on Law and Order , you know , having these OG roots , it was a beautiful opportunity for him to involve himself with one of his favorite game , but also something that ’s like super on marque for him and his persona . And for us , it was super important that it did n’t feel garish , right , it was someone who has that levity , and that like , criminal lordliness to really portray that character .
So we create Mac together , who ’s from New Jersey , and one of the contractor , the first one who facilitate to pay the ring to get to New York , for whatever reasonableness . And I ’m super activated to see where we take that , because that ’s I have in mind , launch for us . And I ca n’t emphasize that enough . It ’s only the beginning , right ? particularly if we look at Payday 2 . And what we get word from that is that launch is only the origin , it ’s in the post - launch , that we ’re really gon na initiate plunge deeply together with the community on what we require to do what we require to see where we require to go together . ”
JV : What is one lesson that you find out from Payday2 that you are absolutely bringing with you into Payday 3 ?
Almir:“That ’s a good one . To really listen to the community , be as straightforward as we possibly can with them . And to realise , or to prompt ourselves that even though we might screw up , because , you cognize , you may never say never , there is always a way back , right ? Because it ’s in the residential area ’s like , it ’s in their interest to see us succeed . And I would screw for us to succeed together and really , you have a go at it , elevate that relationship , you know , because I think , you know , television games have n’t been around for that long , a couple of tenner now . I call up there is so much more that we can accomplish together some of the more interesting things that we can explore residential area events , you know , where the biotic community has the ability to inject themselves into the experience in various ways .
We have a really dear example . I ’m not indisputable if you ’re cognizant of it , so I ’ll explain it . We had a meme and inside gag about a comically large gilt spoon . Have you find out about that ? So by all odds delay this out . There ’s a huge YouTuber called Russian Badger . And him and his friends . They did a vast YouTube video on Payday . They got jillion of views and they were joke about this comically magnanimous golden spoonful . And on the spur of the moment , in the video , they say , Yeah , we should pull the Almir to make it into the biz . And the residential district take off to you know , voice ya recognize , get the golden spoon in the game . So for April Fool ’s we ’ve actually put in a golden spoonful into the game .
But we pulled the residential area ’s leg , and said here ’s a comically large fork , because that ’s not what they wanted , correct ? They wanted the spoonful and then we gave them the spoonful . And we added this comically large , yellow prosperous spoonful to the secret plan that when you use it in the lead , it can place enemies on fire . And it has nothing to do with heisting . Yeah , it has nothing to do with anything , really .
But it ’s part of the culture , you make love , in between the lines of the residential district and the secret plan , like the kind of matter where like , you had to be there to get it . Yeah . And it became this huge affair , right . And I just know for that , because I see so many positive memories being generated as a upshot of that coaction between us and them , you lie with , and , and then create this narrative of having bullied it to the biz because of them , you know , pressuring us , which is making love , because it ’s that kind of back and forth .
We want , you know , that is kind of jovial , you know , and just fun , you know , because that ’s what it ’s about . Why are we playing video games , as some as an escapism ? Some just to have a near time ? Yeah , that ’s what it ’s about . So that ’s what we need Payday to be a platform for . ”
JV : Right ? Yeah , there ’s so many times where like , a community of a plot will oppose negatively to a symmetricalness modification or a raw musical composition of content or whatever . Then you have to recall that there are present moment when they push around you into putting the comically enceinte spoonful into the game .
Almir : Yeah , exactly . Yeah . And that ’s just such a beautiful moment . Because again , it has nothing to do with burglarize . But at the same metre , it has everything to do with what makes Payday , Payday , right . And I think that ’s the that ’s the secret sauce right there . Us play on hooey like that , right .
junior varsity : And so with Payday 3 , your destination is to put more comically expectant spoons into the video game .
Almir:“Every meter I rain cats and dogs by myself as well on my own Twitch channel , but also for the studio on the prescribed channel . And every fourth dimension I get that inquiry , I say , there have been no comically large utensil , corroborate for Payday 3 , because obviously , there ’s so many people ask for it . But they do that because they sleep with how it happened in Payday 2 . Yeah .
But the head we require to make is that befall in Payday 2 , and it ’s a Payday 2 thing . It might pass with Payday 3 , but then it needs to chance the right timing decently , because we require to pop serious with Payday 3 , we require to make it into like this mature experience , you know , like pull it back again , like because it became a bit all over the place with Payday 2 . ”
JV : Games have to escalate to that stop , they started as their own thing . And then as you and the community of interests sort of ramp up up things together , then it can buckle into whatever we exactly think it require to .
Almir:“I experience like with Payday 2 , we were at times feel that we were diluting it . Whereas with Payday 3 our goal is to never do that . But instead , find way to complicate it , you know , and just work up on that and improve it . ”
JV : Right , because in the presentment you were like Payday : The Heist was the conception , Payday 2 was the elaboration , and then Payday 3 is like the development .
Almir : The origination is the locomotive engine switching because Payday 2 was made in Diesel , which is our own engine .
JV : And now you ’re on Unreal 4 , presently to be 5 ?
Almir:“We’re gon na advance it to fight within the first twelvemonth . So it ’s going to be a huge difference , I hope for our players . But also just goes to show that we ’re , you bang , putting ourselves so much into this . ”
JV : Is the intellect the Unreal Engine 5 electric switch is coming subsequently , just because you did n’t have the tools when you started develop 3 ?
Almir:“I would indicate we had the tool , but we did n’t want to take the risk . Okay , so when we started developing , we started in Unreal 4 . And when we were offered the chance to raise , we were like , you know , the professional and cons type that if we were to hit our waiver engagement , and if we wanted to make certain that everything work as well as possible for launch , we decide that you know what , let ’s redeem that . Because we know we ’re going to support the secret plan anyway . In the post - launch let ’s write that as part of the post - launch plan . ”
junior varsity : Right . And then that ’s a whole other thing for citizenry to look forward to .
Almir:“Precisely because it ’s not going to be like a $ 20 upgrade to the fight right ? It ’s going to be something that affects everyone whether or not you play on PC or PlayStation . ”
junior varsity : Sometimes in Payday 2 , there was like a little flake of a disparity between the PC edition getting poppycock before cabinet .
Almir:“Huge disparity . That ’s something that we ’ve talked a draw about in our community of interests , and particularly during the 10 - year celebration we did just the other week . And so what happened was that for Payday 2 on console , we had to stop exploitation a few year in because essentially , we met with so many technological challenge that we were ineffectual to fulfill that . And I cerebrate that ’s such an unfortunate thing . Because at the time when we made Payday 2 we ’d never thought or dreamed that we could support it for such a long metre afterwards .
But with Payday 3 we ’ve managed to recognise that progress the right substructure , in social club to make indisputable that we can have one community no matter what platform you dally on , you may do cross - progression , cross - play , and just have an equally as estimable of a time on personal computer as you may on consoles . ”
JV : I ’m indisputable people are thrilled about that . I played Payday 2 on console for the first time , I played it on PS4 , and I enjoyed it . It was sound . But I would speak to my friends who played on PC , and they ’re like , Oh , y’ all do n’t have that or that ? Oh , yeah , I infer I do n’t .
Almir:“And that create two communities . Yes . And that ’s , that ’s the worst place to be in as a developer , because you want everyone to go through the same affair . And like in any new update , we would do for PC , we would see masses pass away like , when is this coming to console table , you know , and you would have to explain it again and again .
So you never like left with it . It ’s like an open wound . Right . I ’m super well-chosen for us to start fresh with Payday 3 . And we explained this in one of our developer diaries , that was focusing on consoles that , you be intimate , we apologize for that . We own up to that , you know , it was our roll in the hay up . And hopefully , they will give us the opportunity with Payday 3 to recover their faith because that ’s fundamentally what it ’s about . Right ? I opine emphatically a lot of them , maybe not you , but a lot of them find betrayed almost like , why am I not supportive ? Because not everyone realizes the reasons behind it . ”
